Discussion Forums

Guilt & Magic july 29 2013

Jul 29th 2013, 23:35


Joined: Apr 29th 2010, 15:37
Total Topics: 36
Total Posts: 53
Magic & Guilt
Do you ever feel guilty when performing magic?
Can guilt be a "good thing or bad"thing in magic?
What are YOUR feelings about guilt in relation to magic?

Mike Vincent
Fear, guilt and trepidation will betray you long before your technique. I believe mastery over fear and guilt is as important as mastery of technique in order to create the perfect illusion of impossibility.

Hayden Childress
I'm confused, why would anyone feel guilty?? As long as you are GIVING the audience something to enjoy rather than doing it to see them applaud your name I don't think you would ever feel guilty

Morris Poore ·
Never felt guilty for doing magic

Paul Draper All mentalists are Prophets for a religion that they may not believe in.

Daniel Chard ·
If you feel guilt when doing magic, then your in the wrong game 

Jeff McBride Does your " magical ability" to lie ever creep over into daily life??? Does it help or hinder social relations ? Is it ethical??

Paul Draper People spend their whole lives looking for someone who has REAL powers. I feel a little guilty when they see my show and decide that it is me.

Rick Maue One of the reasons that I retired was guilt. Seriously.

Rick Maue
It was much more than that, Jeff. It was something that I thought about for years, and finally, I realized that I couldn't hide from it any longer. It is a topic that I still think about every day.

Rick Maue
Mentalism is not dishonest at all. Mentalism is merely a tool.

Rick Maue
To be honest, I feel that "guilt" is much too broad of a term. It appears that it is being defined in several ways, and so the conversation itself is suffering. In my opinion, it is one of those topics that is very personal, and much too large to be accurately discussed.

Mark Rossbach ·
I never enjoyed most mentalism because it seems too...dishonest; when a magician does other tricks people dont take them the way they do with mentalism

Douglas Conn
If you are performing with guilt, you might as well have told the secret.
An audience can sense such feelings...
You must BELIEVE in your effects and your methods must flow like water off a ducks back! Like Breathing.Indeed: Guilt is a terrible thing

Doug Higley
There is never a reason to lie. If you're a 'foolertainer' you are no more lieing than any actor or performer involved in a PORtrayal not a BEtrayal. Since I do not lie...guilt is not an option.

Douglas Conn ·
Im not a mentalist & don't have to deal with such problems!

Naphtalia Leba
I don't feel guilty performing because I feel like I'm offering the audience what they want - entertainment in the form of mystery and a relationship. I try to lie as little as possible in doing magic, but I figure the understood contract with my audience allows me to do it for a limited time and for a good cause.

Matt Bailey
I don't feel guilty because my chief mission is to entertain my audience and fool in that process. Not the other way around. I accept the fictional world in which I fool during the show, and have no "magical ability to lie" outside the act.

Yassin Aitmoulay

When I first started magic I used to feel guilt whenever I'm hiding something or whenever I say a false statement , but at the time I used to have an attitude of a show off guy instead of giving a beautiful meaningful experience to my audience , when I changed my attitude to the later the feeling of guilt has disappeared , but In mentalism it's a completely different story , I used to feel guilty when I used to use the Psychic approach in my performances, people believed that I possess some sort of an unusual psychic powers and I wasn't comfortable with that at all, so I changed it to the psychological approach because I feel it's much more believable and I don't have to claim supernatural powers , of course guilt has disappeared once again .

Bill Cook

I'm not the kind of person who feels guilty about giving a gift, so I don't feel guilty about performing magic for people. I do feel uneasy still about receiving adulation and "congratulations, great show"

Jeff McBride
MENTALISM seems to generate " false prophet" feelings if guilt in some magi

Naphtalia Leba
Re: the issue of the ethics of magic creeping into daily life and is it ethical? I have used magic on occasion when someone was being nasty, dishonest or otherwise unkind. Most of the time, the person has known I was a magician or had reason to suspect it. Being unkind to a person whose job is to play fast & loose with the physical laws of the universe begs for a little gentle payback. My favorite occasion was a woman who was being rude to the staff behind the counter at the magic shop. I had just come in and was quickly able to size up what was happening. I commented on her very cool "safety scarf" -- you know, the kind of scarf you can't choke on. I borrowed her scarf and pulled it through my neck. The guys behind the counter tried it, too. Finally, we returned it to her and let her try it.

Amado Narvaez
Richard Alan Simmons, a Hollywood playwright, penned a number of scripts about magic. In one of them--"The Great Anatole" on the Dick Powell Theater in 1962, he has the magician--Anatole (played by Curt Jurgens)--say at the beginning of each performance, whether at a night club or a children's hospital:
"Everything I show you is the truth.
And the truth... is the loveliest of lies."

Tim Carlson ·
Verbal misdirection goes hand in hand with any spoken magic act. However, as in life, a thoughtfully worded truth can often be more misleading than a bold lie.

Tim Carlson ·
In performance no guilt is necessary, when it crosses over into life you will have to make your own moral decisions.

Jason Porter
·They come to see me as a magician which means I am going to lie. Why should I feel guilty? They were warned from the beginning. Do actors stop the play to announce they are not really the characters they are playing?

Kent Wong
The only time I feel guilty is when I'm performing a routine with little to none of "myself" injected into it. There are several effects where everyone has to perform the routine the exact same way. Often, the patter and presentation is even identical from one performer to the next. Even though some of these effects get great responses, I feel like an imposter on the stage. I approach magic as an art form, but I don't feel very artistic when performing effects such as these.

Arthur Jones
I never feel guilty because an audience knows there going to be fooled and tricked. If we don't fulfill that for them, we have failed.

Scott SteelFyre
From the very begining we are taught right from wrong (well we hope) and that we should feel Gulity when we do something wrong, the trick as a Magician is to overcome those actions that every human can "read" that show guilt. Don't be in such a hurry to get to that pocket, take a deep breath when your hands are hot then move naturally to rest position.

Nathen Sinclaire
I dislike mentalism for even when you tell them you are faking some insist on believing it's real

Scott SteelFyre hmmm now here is a idea a "Gentelman Mentalist" who always asks permission before taking thoughts? I there someone that does this?

Naphtalia Leba
We know that many magical methods have applications to those who work as con-artists. As long as we remain honest with our audience and ourselves about what we're doing, it should n't be guilt inducing.

Jeffrey Nease Sometimes I feel guilty when I watch magic....

Andrew Martin
Only when kids ask me to do something . Like if they have a broken arm and they want me to fix it. Sometimes Im not to sure what to say.

Leland Earl Eiben ·Sometimes I feel guilty "not" performing magic when I see my brethren performing.

Joey Butler ·quote Eugene Burger: Lie without guilt.'

Jul 29th 2013, 23:37


Joined: Apr 29th 2010, 15:37
Total Topics: 36
Total Posts: 53
Here is the classroom chat from the "Guilt and magic " episode July 29 2013

Mystery School Monday Chat Log July 29 2013
9:00 PM scottsteelfyre: Big anouncement I will be giving a presentation at Magic and Meaning this YEAR!
9:00 PM shinobimagic: Lets Rock !!!
9:03 PM TaylorMartin: He's got the big show tonight.
9:03 PM andrewmartinmagic: ya
9:03 PM KentWong: I love these discussions on the psychology of magic
9:03 PM TaylorMartin: Guilt?
9:03 PM TaylorMartin: No
9:04 PM magicstemm: guilt of not doing enough shows!
9:04 PM scottsteelfyre: wow great show
9:04 PM katrettke: hello all
9:04 PM scottsteelfyre: Evening Kat
9:06 PM MichaelTrixx: Premium members videos was very good! Become a member....
9:06 PM jeffmcbride: how do YOU deal with guilt!
9:06 PM lelaneiben: I am guilty that I did not practice enough
9:07 PM brianjhatcher: Very true, Trixx.
9:07 PM CJMay: I deal with guilt by channeling my inner 8 year old: I pretend this effect IS magic....much less guilt.
9:07 PM youbetterbelieveit: feed the mind
9:08 PM scottsteelfyre: Dentiion for Zink
9:08 PM twobrothersonemind: Andrew is awesome
9:08 PM scottsteelfyre: 50 one hand cuts
9:08 PM KentWong: Actors don't feel guilty about the roles they play. When i perform, I live the role. there is no guilt.
9:08 PM lelaneiben: Sound good Kent
9:09 PM twobrothersonemind: no guilt here. if people listen carefully, we tell them exacty what we're doing.
9:09 PM twobrothersonemind: we never lie and say we're doing something that we're not.
9:09 PM jeffmcbride: good words Kent!
9:10 PM KentWong: Thx
9:10 PM RADLEYMAGIC: My job as a magician is to create a sense of wonder, I don't feel guilty about that!
9:10 PM MichaelTrixx: confidence can cover guilt, or use comedy....?
9:10 PM andrewmartinmagic: I have no gilt when I perform. It my job. You know if you tell them truth how something done. They won't believe it.
9:10 PM magicstemm: a fun kind of lying
9:10 PM ZinkMagic: Try both Trixx...
9:11 PM scottsteelfyre: its all about believing what your doing is real, even tho you know its not
9:11 PM ZinkMagic: I do it!
9:11 PM LouJohnson: My juggling helps me to not feel SO guilty about my shows. I guess the fear of being in an AMAZING place (theater, White House, etc.) and think "Do I belong here?"
9:11 PM youbetterbelieveit: be an honest liar, wayne houchin explains that what he is doing is sleight of hand, this is a con, honest character
9:11 PM DarylRogers: jamy ian smith talks about being an "honest liar"
9:11 PM magicstemm: makes up for the hours of practice
9:12 PM youbetterbelieveit: agreed daryl
der if the root of guilt isn't a fear that we are doing harm to someone by lying to them.
9:13 PM magogus: you Know i do kid shows. and there is no guilt, when you see their happy faces. as some one said i´doing my job.
9:13 PM youbetterbelieveit: put the magic in their hands, aka sponge balls
9:14 PM StrongOne: hello all
9:14 PM KentWong: The only time I feel guilty is when I'm performing a routine with little to none of "myself" injected into it. There are several effects where everyone has to perform the routine the exact same way.
9:15 PM KentWong: Often, the patter and presentation is even identical from one performer to the next. Even though some of these effects get great responses, I feel like an imposter on the stage. I approach magic as an
9:15 PM LouJohnson: How about a "sucker trick" or teach a trick segment, to put your truthfullness out there.
9:15 PM StrongOne: hi kent
9:15 PM KentWong: art form, but I don't feel very artistic when performing effects such as these.
9:16 PM johntudor: oh of course yes
9:16 PM youbetterbelieveit: hi john :)
9:16 PM andrewmartinmagic: Yes his name was Carlo
9:16 PM johntudor: hi
9:16 PM passingby: The Amazing Metting (TAM) is what the skeptics convention was called
9:16 PM lelaneiben: A little white lie?
9:17 PM TheMagicOfConrad: In life Food, love, career, and mothers, the four major guilt groups.Cathy Guisewite
9:17 PM LouJohnson: How many magicians out there can talk their way out of a speeding ticket?
9:17 PM twobrothersonemind: me :-)
9:17 PM magicstemm: i always speak the truth, even when i lie------scarface
9:17 PM andrewmartinmagic: or no honey , I did not buy another magic book
9:18 PM StrongOne: what about what chris angle did to that on mentelist
9:18 PM StrongOne: was the right
9:18 PM andrewmartinmagic: and though are magic performace we can get away with it
9:19 PM andrewmartinmagic: If you see my wife at Magic live dont say word
9:19 PM scottsteelfyre: OOOoooo sounds like FUN!
9:19 PM CJMay: Hey, Kay!
9:19 PM TaylorMartin: I bought Stephen Cohen's book on pre-sale the other day.
9:20 PM brianjhatcher: 1
9:20 PM lelaneiben: Just think about this. People come and pay good money just to see us lie.
9:20 PM SimoneM: 1
9:20 PM MichaelTrixx: 1
9:20 PM katrettke: is there a difference between member and premere member? Not sure.
9:20 PM RADLEYMAGIC: When our magic is a gift that we give to others there is no reason to feel guilty!
9:20 PM andrewmartinmagic: ok taylor I wont say a word to your wife
9:20 PM kaytracy: why should we be any different form TV and all the other media out there!
gel is a good example, no ?
9:21 PM passingby: as long as you arent tryign to tell people this is real "magic powers or spirits" i think its usually ok; noone sees a woman sawed in half and thinks it really happened
9:21 PM TaylorMartin: Hm, maybe we need to be acting?
9:21 PM StrongOne: ya when he called the mentelist out live on tv.. i thought that was wrong
9:21 PM kaytracy: well, originally I think they DID think ti was real!
9:22 PM youbetterbelieveit: magician is an actor playing the part of a magician
9:22 PM passingby: if you are purposley making people think that you are really talkign to spirits for real, i wouldtn hesitate to call you out
9:22 PM ZinkMagic: A Great magician.
9:22 PM TaylorMartin: Conjurng is the only honest occupation. We tell you we are deceiving you and then proceed to do so.-Germain
9:22 PM DarylRogers: love it!
9:23 PM katrettke: I think it is easier to feel guilty when you talk about mentalism. I feel guilty even when I am not the mentalist, when a friend asks if I know how s/he did that. I don't lie, but I don't reveal.
9:23 PM StrongOne: yet it is ok tho use camera trick . not real magic
9:23 PM andrewmartinmagic: I think Malini had no guilt
9:23 PM johntudor: Trixx here in DelRey, fla
9:23 PM TheMagicOfConrad: "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device." ~Walter Scott
9:23 PM MichaelTrixx: Im in Boston ;(
9:23 PM passingby: im over in weston, fla
9:23 PM andrewmartinmagic: good one Taylor
9:23 PM LouJohnson: I have the Fitzkee Trilogy! Anyone else?
9:23 PM johntudor: yeah, right?
9:23 PM ZinkMagic: Working on it, Lou.
9:23 PM magicstemm: to decieve
9:23 PM jokah76: yo Trixx
9:23 PM jeffmcbride: jerry andrus would never lie
9:23 PM johntudor: lou rereading it now
9:23 PM jeffmcbride: in his scripts
9:23 PM jeffmcbride: hi John Tudor!
9:24 PM jeffmcbride: grabbing chat Daryl?
9:24 PM jeffmcbride: if so thanks!
9:24 PM DarylRogers: yes
9:24 PM jeffmcbride: I cannot during the show
9:24 PM johntudor: yes indeed !
9:24 PM DarylRogers: happy t do it
9:24 PM pauldraper: just showing up for a min :-) This is a great topic
9:25 PM johntudor: hi paul
9:25 PM ZinkMagic: Hi, Paul.
9:25 PM youbetterbelieveit: hi paul its ryan brown :D
9:25 PM CJMay: Hey, Paul! Jeff and Abbie offered 2 great quotes from you earlier in the show.
9:25 PM pauldraper: Nice
9:25 PM KentWong: Hi Paul!
9:25 PM pauldraper: Hi Hi Hi
9:25 PM katrettke: hi Paul, great discussion on the topic on fb
9:25 PM TaylorMartin: Reality? What a concept.-Robin Wms.
9:25 PM brianjhatcher: Honest Truth About Dishonesty: http://amzn.to/13VclIc
9:26 PM TaylorMartin: Charles was great.
9:26 PM andrewmartinmagic: blackstone
9:27 PM LouJohnson: Here's one idea: If I have to STRETCH the truth about the number of shows that I've performed, I just think,"I'm NOT lying. I'm telling the TRUTH....EARLY!"
9:27 PM kevina022: Hello
9:27 PM DarylRogers: heh
9:27 PM TaylorMartin: He loved my show when I did it at MNM in the late 90s.
9:27 PM katrettke: animals?!? Please give an example, would love to hear more on that.
9:27 PM seymourmagic: lol good one lou
9:27 PM brianjhatcher: By The Grace of Guile: http://amzn.to/16x08s7
9:28 PM brianjhatcher: Kat, a mother duck faking a broken wing, for example, to lead a predator from her chicks.
9:28 PM katrettke: oh, sure
9:28 PM LouJohnson: Cool Fact, Brian.
9:28 PM pauldraper: called a broken wing display
9:28 PM kaytracy: a gohper snake rattling it's tail in the grass to seem like a rattle snake
9:29 PM kaytracy: the "eye spots" on the cobra hood
9:29 PM TaylorMartin: playing possum?
9:29 PM youbetterbelieveit: awesome possum
9:29 PM johntudor: a principle of method acting is finding one's inner truth
9:29 PM jokah76: a burrow owl will make a rattlind sound if a predator come into it burrow
9:30 PM MichaelTrixx: lol
9:30 PM shinobimagic: Check this out , LISTEN!
9:30 PM kaytracy: placebo effect?!
9:30 PM TaylorMartin: The Giant Rat of Sumatra
9:30 PM jeffmcbride: Daryl ive been editing the classroom chat and now putting the good stuff on the forums
9:30 PM lelaneiben: Exactlly
9:31 PM DarylRogers: great!
9:31 PM katrettke: cool, Jeff. I really miss the chat when seeing the "repeats"
9:31 PM jeffmcbride: yes archiving it!
9:31 PM jeffmcbride: thaks Kat!
9:32 PM MichaelTrixx: \m/
9:32 PM lelaneiben: I just discovered that today. Thanks for archiving these
9:32 PM jeffmcbride: just starting now!
9:32 PM jeffmcbride: please contribute to the forums
9:32 PM lelaneiben: yes
9:32 PM shinobimagic: